Help With Micro Four Thirds Cameras

Calling all photographers!

I am looking to purchase a new camera this year and have been hearing, and reading, some good things about the new class of cameras called "Micro Four Thirds".  In particular, I have read on several FPV related forums good things about Sony's Nex-3, Nex-5 and Nex-7.

What I know about these are that they have interchangeable lenses like a full DSLR, but do not have the moving mirror inside so you can only see the frame via a screen.  They also seem to be smaller and lighter which is important to me for my application as a Aerial Photography and Video camera.

I don't want to sacrifice quality of the resultant photos, but also require that the camera do 1080P video with a minimum of 30 minutes at a time or per flight.  Being able to do higher frame rates like 60 or 120 FPS would be desirable.

It would also be a bonus if the camera could be controlled in some manner remotely since it will be in the air.  The ability to start and stop the camera shooting video from a ground station and being able to trigger the camera to take still photos is also a plus.  Being able to see the frame remotely and trigger the shot would be a bonus, as would being able to control the zoom.

It seems to me that other manufacturers such as Panasonic and Olympus also offer great products and perhaps others that I am not yet aware of.  I do not need to stick with the Sony brand, I only mentioned them first as they are familiar models I have seen mentioned already in a FPV AP context.

Of course the best camera is nothing without good glass and having quality lenses available from third parties may also play a role in my selection.  Can the lenses from one manufacturer play nice with the body of another?  Will there be deficiencies in this area?

I know w00d and Golden Child are knowledgeable on cameras and it seems Nexus is also very experienced and I welcome all others to post their opinions even if you are not into Aerial Photography because this camera will probably end up being my go-to camera for a few years to come.

K I'll go first ...

Lets start by talking sensor size, you going to need the largest sensor you can afford as the largest will give you the best-bang-for-your-buck with respect to images quality, that of course is assuming a good quality Lens to begin with

Also note after 10 [acronym=Megapixel]Mpix[/acronym] we won't get any better picture quality and in some cases anything larger than 10 Mpix could hinder picture quality ... Even the best Lens to date can't resolve past 10 Mpix!

As for what brand camera I would have NO recommendation. All things being equal whether it's Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fuji, you name the brand you'll find VERY little difference between the quality of picture your going to get, all of em will take a great picture ... nuff said ...

Anyhow for NOW wrap your head around the Sensor Size's and then we'll go from there ... 4/3 is a good size sensor but for the same money you may want to look at cameras with the larger 1.5x or 1.6x sensors ... The Full Frame 35mm sensors are considered on PRO level cameras and might be too expensive ... 'Prosumer' camera's WILL most likely have a 1.5x or 1.6x sensor

           

Digital Camera Sensor Sizes: How Do These Influence Photography?

    [size=1.2em][shadow=grey,left]w00d[/shadow][/size]


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A bigger sensor is probably better in most cases, but I need a smaller size and high performance camera that shoots stills and video.  If money was no object I would get a much bigger quadcopter and a RED camera but that is not the case.  I will be using this camera on my DJI hexacopter.

I read that the Sony Nex-7 goes up to 6000 pixels wide which is more than enough for me.  It looks like the Nex-5 does not do 1080p, but 1080i instead but is significantly less money.  I think they both use the same lenses and some Zeiss versions are available.

Following are some reviews for you, and this Camera Review Site (dpreview.com) is well regarded by the Pro's so they can be trusted. You should be able to find ALL answers to your questions there. As for lenses in general I would STAY with the manufactures lens, third-party lenses CAN be be good and cheaper but you need to do your researching carefully ... The top three third-party lens manufacture's elude me at the moment but when they COME to mind I WILL post, after my JAVA kicks in ... LOL

• Sony Alpha NEX-3 Review
• Sony Alpha NEX-5 Review
• Sony Alpha NEX-7 Review
• NEX-3 and NEX-5 Detailed Review
• Sony NEX-7 In-Depth Review

• Ken Rockwell's is also a pretty good Camera Review Site

Sorry, but you did say "I don't want to sacrifice quality of the resultant photo" ...
... thus reasoning behind my post! Anyhow no biggie "jus putting it out there" as they say

    [size=1.2em][shadow=grey,left]w00d[/shadow][/size]

PS: Also consider (given your weight concerns) a 'Prime' lens as 'Zooms' are too much weight besides you can't zoom in flight anyway ...  and prime's are cheaper but best of all will offer a better picture than our typical zooms A ZOOM can come later as your second lens, on the ground they certainly are convenient ...

EDIT: Upon reading the above review I found the Sony NEX-3 and NEX-5 are NOT 4/3 camera's but indeed their crop factor is 1.5x ... Making the sensor question somewhat moot. HaHa, something to be said about reading about the camera before speaking eh


 
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After an hour or so of reading the detailed review of both the DEX-3 and 5 ... I think you would be happy w/ any of Sony DEX Cams

Although myself being dSLR biased it was an effort NOT to let that BIAS show but it was made apparent these camera's are targeting the Point'n Shoot folk, especially those who want a Large(r) Sensor and Interchangeable Lens in a SMALL (smaller) package than of a typical dSLR. As an high-end Point and Shoot cam clearly they did a good job and made a fine camera which delivers on teh promises, and I have to admit it's a fine shooter

While reading I put down some notes that might be of interest as they cover some of your question. They summarize (kinda) the entire review but these do lean more toward what I would find important but maybe you wouldn't ... Also I'd say it's NOT a complete summery so best to read the entire review yourself ... There's some GOOD and some BAD although nothing I would CALL a DEAL breaker but HEY nothing is perfect, eh

... Have NOT done any reading on the Sony DEX-7, yet but is going to be my next read

Hey Yada Bud, hope it helps ;D
    [size=1.2em][shadow=grey,left]w00d[/shadow][/size]

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• Sony NEX-3 and NEX-5 Detailed Review

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Designed from ground up for the 'point and shoot' enthusiasts

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The number of available lenses (Sony) are limited in quantity however with an optional adapter we can use the Minolta line of SLR lenses w/ the Sony DEX bodies

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In camera (Auto) HDR features

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In camera (Sweep) Panorama mode

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An adjustable, articulating High Resolution LED screen

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Excellent JPEG production although by looking at the 'RAW' files, it's clear the sensor itself is capable of capturing more detail than is conveyed in the JPEGs ...
... Intimating best results will be gained by shooting RAW vs jPEG- w00d ...

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Battery life is closer to that of a compact camera than anything a dSLR user will be used to, so how much of a problem you find it will depend on your expectations

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NEX-3, Shows some degree of the 'Rolling Shutter' issue

Which would indicate they are using a slower 'processor' than used in their later cameras - w00d

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The NEX-5 video is also good but not significantly clearer or more detailed than the NEX-3's output. It also has the disadvantage of being in the harder-to-handle AVCHD format and being interlaced, rather than progressive scanned (again making it slightly more awkward to work with). Overall, the advantage of the NEX-5 is marginal

NOTE: The Sony DEX-7 supports AVCHD Progressive' 1080p60 HD movie recording with built-in stereo mic - w00d

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The image quality of the NEXs is generally good with punchy colors and plenty of detail. The criticisms we've leveled at the images from Sony dSLRs are all present - slightly clumsy sharpening, rather over-saturated reds and over-bright metering and exposure - but it's only the last of these that's likely to be a problem for the target group of users

Despite being able to capture a wide dynamic range with lots of scope for highlights, the camera's apparently miscalibrated metering means it offers little advantage over its rivals - most mid tones are overexposed so that there is only around 3.3EV of highlight dynamic range left to accommodate any bright tones in the image (which is pretty much the standard highlight range figure we see in most large sensor cameras) ...

However the reviewed material covers an the FIRST release of the Firmware and the issues discussed may have been corrected w/ more current versions - w00d

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Where the NEX's really impress is the PASM modes where you can take full advantage of the large, very capable sensor. The feature sets are impressive, as are the NEX's portability and flexibility. They don't render the dSLR obsolete by any means, but they present one of the most compelling options for someone wanting DSLR image quality without the bulk

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QUICK Linage ...

Sony Alpha NEX-3, Alpha NEX-5, Olympus EPL-1, Samsung NX10: key differences

• http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNex5Nex3/13

NEX-3 and NEX-5 review conclusions

• http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/SonyNex5Nex3/17

DEX-5 Samples Gallery

• http://www.dpreview.com/galleries/reviewsamples/albums/sony-nex-5-review-samples-gallery

DEX-7 Detailed Review

• http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex7

DEX-7 Review Conclusions - Looks like this one has everything your looking for Yoda but it is in a slightly larger package ...
... The Sony DEX-7 supports AVCHD Progressive' 1080p60 HD movie recording with built-in stereo mic - w00d

• http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonynex7/28

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WOW!  Thank you for all that w00d!  I appreciate your taking the time to roll up your sleeves and dig into this.

I wish the Nex-5 did 1080P at 60 FPS then it would be a no brainer for me.  Also because the Nex-7 costs almost double as much as the Nex-5 with a comparable lens.

It looks like you need to spend $1,350 for a Nex-7 with a 18-55mm lens which puts it into a price range that opens up a lot of other options.

The Nex-5 with a 18-55mm lens costs around $700.  Even here there are a lot of decent video cameras available, but I don't think any with changeable lenses.

Can't help much other than for FPV between all the CNC people you know I think someone could come up with a way to click the "take a picture button" and even zoom the thing. A rubber finger on a servo arm that is calibrated by end points and operated by a toggle switch on the radio would be super easy to make. A three position switch could be center nuetral, and zoom in/out.

And, since you have seen me crash a lot, and I have seen you crash a time or two, I would be getting a box and a lot of foam around that dude..........

Flightbox used a servo on his GoPro when he shot the photos on the flight day last year so I know a system like that works.  I was hoping that there would be a electronic way to do it.  I know some can be triggered via a IR remote and some cameras have a jack on them for this purpose.

I decided I'm not going to crash any more. 

I was BORED, besides I was interested and curious myself ...
... With that when researching I usually JOT down some notes along the way. Meh, all I did was 'copy'n paste' what I had written down

Being interested I also have been looking at [acronym=Electronic Viewfinder, Interchangeable Lens Cameras]E.V.I.L[/acronym] cameras in general for a time as they offer up some interesting features.
... I will be interested to see what the future brings ...
... and although I'm locked into Nikon w/ Nikkor Lenses I WILL be interested in seeing what EVIL Nikon will have to offer me

I look at [acronym= Lenses ]Glass[/acronym] being the investment and a given Camera Body the technology to chase. Maybe there's some EVIL in my future

    [size=1.2em][shadow=grey,left]w00d[/shadow][/size]


[quote author=Pelagic Pilot link=topic=1349.msg9263#msg9263 date=1338961965]
<snip> and even zoom the thing <snip>[/quote]

DIY for the Aerial Zoom Control thing, maybe a 'Ring Gear' made out of machinable plastic ...
... affixed around the Zoom Control (ring) powered by a 'Modified' Servo and Pinion !?!

Given the correct diameter of the Ring Gear the gear could be a pressure FIT as most Zoom Rings are made out of rubber 



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Flytron does it for the GoPro:

http://www.flytron.com/rc-shutters/194-gopro-rc-shutter.html

Do you have to twist the whole lens on a SLR? or just move a button left right?

Most dSLR Zoom's are 'twist' on the Lens itself, whereas most Point'n Shooter's are Push Button controlled on the Body ... I was thinking for on the Lens Zooms of our dSLR's

JUST another review of the NEX-3 (Fanboy!!) but the pictures of the CAM itself are MUCH MUCH prettier, MUCH!
... Thus the ONLY reason to have de LOOK an whyz I de post dis leenk



     

That is a pretty camera.

I would think that these cameras are also somewhat more durable than a DSLR, not that either variety would fair well from a helicopter/quadcopter crash.

Too wide a brush my friend ...
... being more "durable" might be true for low end dSLR's but it's certainly NOT true for the high-end (maybe some prosumer) cams ...
... High-end cams are generally built tougher (being cased in metal) for the professional who can be very demanding and harder on their equipment. It's one of the things they pay for w/ pro-equipment, it's goes "hand in hand" with their HIGH performance

DSLR gimble review:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAblquDnKrc&hd=1

Flown by a NAZA, assembled with zip ties 

Are there any belt driven gimbals in this price range?

Found the following for Yoda however it's dated 2011 ... nevertheless have a look ...

• Mirrorless Roundup 2011

Thanks w00d.  A lot of good information there.

This week I've been lost ALL day soaking in ALL the INFO that interests
LMAO, have almost seen and read everything there is to see and read
... Thus I've noticed that 'dpreview' the source of the above 'Roundup' material has done lots of reviews
(too many to list here) from all the major makers of 4/3 and EVIL camera's

I noticed that too.  Those guys have quite a lot of interesting news and reviews.  They are busy.  I've always wondered if those "Review" websites get to keep the products they review.